You can now pick up Modern20 here as well as other fine PDF retailers.
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Anonymous
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Purchased a copy and looking through it now. Pretty good; can't wait to inflict it on my folks. Noticed some typos and have some questions- do you want them and, if so, where?
The Streetwise and Attractive Feats both grant a bonus to the Networking sub-category of the Influence Skill, but I can't find the rules for Networking anywhere in the PDF.
LOVE the combat system changes (esp. Hit Locations and Injuries) and the Targeted Skill Checks mechanic.
p.81-82, the Injuries body text calls the highest level of injury "intensive", but in the Hit Location Table, it is labeled "(severe)". Not a big deal, but it might confuse the casual reader.
I understand, and heartily approve of, the freeform Experience system on p. 92, but I can't find any rules on Leveling Up. Is multi-classing allowed? The special "1st-level-only" Class Feature each Base Class gets would argue that it is permitted, but none of the example characters are M-C. If you do M-C, should you subtract 2 from the highest Save? Are Class Skills calculated level-by-level? Etc., etc.
Networking is an artifact of previous rules changes, one of many changes to rein in Reputation a little (I love everytime I have to mention that I actually made Reputation *too* powerful).
Just ignore any mentions to it.
Thanks for the find on intensive/severe injuries.
Multi-classing is allowed without restriction.
You don't have to subtract anything from saves, what you make up there you'll lose in Defense and BAB, because most classes don't get a bonus every level. It's my feeling that these balance out.
Skills work normally, level by level.
The only real effects are the core ability (which you don't get) and that your feats available will change.
Table 4-1:Firearms on p.61, the Colt Python and the two Glock pistols have the superscript "1" indicating they are Mastercraft weapons, but none of the other Mastercraft firearms do (H&K MP5, H&K PSG-1, etc.).
How did you assign STRmin and Damage? Do you have a progression/algorithm, or did you eyeball it?
You mean equipment sizes? I always thought that was kind of dumb.
The one place I really thought it had its place was in determining what weapons were light, required two hands, etc., which Modern20 covers with Str. minimums.
Other than that, it was really only there for those rare occasions where someone tried to hide something on their body.
I finished looking through the book; I am pretty excited to get playing. Rich already brought up some of the points I thought off; here are few others (forgive me if some of the answers seem obvious to anyone- just trying to head off the more eccentric players at my table):
**Fireams skill, p36: Is it safe to assume that "Burst Fire" and "Double Tap" refer to the multi-attack rules on pg. 85?
**Feats- Banter, Poise, Smart Defense: are these meant to stack?
**Feats- Pressure Strike, Trick: the text labels them as "(smart)" instad of "Brainiac".
**Feats- Uncanny Dodge, Improved: for the sake of casual players, this should probably read something like, "opponents do not gain the normal bonus for flanking you". After all, the player can actually be flanked.
**Weapons and hiding them from observation: Object sizes are still useful for determining how easy it is to hide something. Speaking of which, what skill would be used for that? I would guess Crime or Streetwise, but neither are great fits. Also, a few firearms have text saying they are easier to hide- did you intend to have concealing weapons rules or is that just flavor?
**Weapons & Reloading: couldn't find anything on reloading speeds. Can I assume it is the same as in the MSRD?
**Attack Bonus, p80: Some of the numbers on the "Defender is..." table listed with the Miscellaneous Modifiers for the attack roll seem to be backwards (unless the table is intended to list modifiers to AC). By backwards, I mean that the numbers are positive when they should be negative and vice versa.
**Hit Locations: I really like the hit locations, called shots, and injuries rules. However, I won't use the random hit locations as is. As is, an attacker is more likely to randomly hit someone in the throat or head than in the foot, calf, knee, or thigh, since those locations require a d20 roll that probably misses the target. I have to ponder on a house rule that won't add complications.
**Strangulation: on a personal note, strangles cut off blood and knock folks out in about 15 secs (~3 rds). While your rule is way better than the old Con based rule, it might be easier to just have a second grapple check to start the strangle and give the victim 3 rounds to break out or be knocked unconscious. 3 rounds is lots of time for PCs. That just my two cents.
**Appendix 1 vs. my 11th grade Algebra teacher: my old teacher was always telling me to show my work because I would write out the first few steps and then write the answer. Appendix 1 is kind of like that; the first few examples show me step-by-step, but the final example agregates a bunch of steps and I had to trace them carefully to make sure I understood everything that happened.
There were also a few typos, but nothing that prevents the reader from understanding what you are saying. Alas, I don't remember where I spotted them. Sorry.
Please don't take any of my comments the wrong way; this is a great product that I fully intend to inflict upon my players as soon as possible. I only bring these things up as a form of feedback for your consideration.
"**Attack Bonus, p80: Some of the numbers on the "Defender is..." table listed with the Miscellaneous Modifiers for the attack roll seem to be backwards (unless the table is intended to list modifiers to AC). By backwards, I mean that the numbers are positive when they should be negative and vice versa."
I think that table is in the wrong column...those are modifiers to Defense, not an attack roll. Also, the Defense equation should end with "+ Miscellaneous Modifiers".
"As is, an attacker is more likely to randomly hit someone in the throat or head than in the foot, calf, knee, or thigh, since those locations require a d20 roll that probably misses the target. I have to ponder on a house rule that won't add complications."
Here's mine: re-arrange the numbers so that they are evenly distributed among "good" and "bad" Hit Locations, e.g.
**Fireams skill, p36: Is it safe to assume that "Burst Fire" and "Double Tap" refer to the multi-attack rules on pg. 85?
Yes, Double Tap and Burst Fire are a special form of multi-attack that is not dependent on level.
**Feats- Banter, Poise, Smart Defense: are these meant to stack?
Yes they are. It would take a lot of work to really get a big boost out of it.
You'd need to jump into three different classes *and* have decent ability scores in three mental stats.
While you could get a combat benefit (high defense), you'd have to have a low stat somewhere that would hurt you in combat.
Dex and Con are obviously hugely important (especially with Recovery saves and injuries in the mix) and Str is much more important than it is in standard d20M with weapon minimums. Also, if you have a low Str, you might be LESS defensible cause you couldn't wear armor.
That was one of my goals, to drive players insane looking for a dump stats ;)
One last point- Modern20 uses a carrot not stick approach to multi-classing. While you can do it whenever you want, some of the best feats (the ability boost feats) are really only available to folks who spend a long time in one class.
Not coincidentally, these feats also work really well with the Banter, Poise and Smart Defense feats.
**Feats- Pressure Strike, Trick: the text labels them as "(smart)" instad of "Brainiac".
**Attack Bonus, p80: Some of the numbers on the "Defender is..." table listed with the Miscellaneous Modifiers for the attack roll seem to be backwards (unless the table is intended to list modifiers to AC). By backwards, I mean that the numbers are positive when they should be negative and vice versa.
Rich and Charles, I wanted to give a special thanks to you two for finding so many little errors for me, many of which are going to be fixed in the upcoming version 1.1 on Monday.
If you guys would drop me a line at the address in the suggestion box at the bottom of the page, let me know what PDF you'd like a comp copy of and the account address you'd like it comped to.
18 comments:
Purchased a copy and looking through it now. Pretty good; can't wait to inflict it on my folks. Noticed some typos and have some questions- do you want them and, if so, where?
Definitely I want them, and here would work as well as anywhere else.
Chuck,
The Streetwise and Attractive Feats both grant a bonus to the Networking sub-category of the Influence Skill, but I can't find the rules for Networking anywhere in the PDF.
LOVE the combat system changes (esp. Hit Locations and Injuries) and the Targeted Skill Checks mechanic.
p.81-82, the Injuries body text calls the highest level of injury "intensive", but in the Hit Location Table, it is labeled "(severe)". Not a big deal, but it might confuse the casual reader.
I understand, and heartily approve of, the freeform Experience system on p. 92, but I can't find any rules on Leveling Up. Is multi-classing allowed? The special "1st-level-only" Class Feature each Base Class gets would argue that it is permitted, but none of the example characters are M-C. If you do M-C, should you subtract 2 from the highest Save? Are Class Skills calculated level-by-level? Etc., etc.
Thanks for the feedback Rich!
Networking is an artifact of previous rules changes, one of many changes to rein in Reputation a little (I love everytime I have to mention that I actually made Reputation *too* powerful).
Just ignore any mentions to it.
Thanks for the find on intensive/severe injuries.
Multi-classing is allowed without restriction.
You don't have to subtract anything from saves, what you make up there you'll lose in Defense and BAB, because most classes don't get a bonus every level. It's my feeling that these balance out.
Skills work normally, level by level.
The only real effects are the core ability (which you don't get) and that your feats available will change.
Thanks again!
Table 4-1:Firearms on p.61, the Colt Python and the two Glock pistols have the superscript "1" indicating they are Mastercraft weapons, but none of the other Mastercraft firearms do (H&K MP5, H&K PSG-1, etc.).
How did you assign STRmin and Damage? Do you have a progression/algorithm, or did you eyeball it?
No, not algorithm, mostly I went "this gun does a lot of damage, it should have a high Str min".
Similarly, the damage bonus of either one-half die or one die, based on my relatively basic knowledge of a weapon's muzzle velocity.
Though I by no means did exhaustive research on that front.
Chuck, are you planning on bringing in Size rules in a later product, or do you consider that an unnecessary complication for Modern^20?
You mean equipment sizes? I always thought that was kind of dumb.
The one place I really thought it had its place was in determining what weapons were light, required two hands, etc., which Modern20 covers with Str. minimums.
Other than that, it was really only there for those rare occasions where someone tried to hide something on their body.
I was thinking more along the lines of animals (Small guard dog, Tiny poisonous tarantula) and vehicles (Huge HMMWV, Gargantuan UH-60 Blackhawk).
Yeah, creatures and vehicles will still have sizes. I didn't include them here because this is a human-focused book.
I finished looking through the book; I am pretty excited to get playing. Rich already brought up some of the points I thought off; here are few others (forgive me if some of the answers seem obvious to anyone- just trying to head off the more eccentric players at my table):
**Fireams skill, p36: Is it safe to assume that "Burst Fire" and "Double Tap" refer to the multi-attack rules on pg. 85?
**Feats- Banter, Poise, Smart Defense: are these meant to stack?
**Feats- Pressure Strike, Trick: the text labels them as "(smart)" instad of "Brainiac".
**Feats- Uncanny Dodge, Improved: for the sake of casual players, this should probably read something like, "opponents do not gain the normal bonus for flanking you". After all, the player can actually be flanked.
**Weapons and hiding them from observation: Object sizes are still useful for determining how easy it is to hide something. Speaking of which, what skill would be used for that? I would guess Crime or Streetwise, but neither are great fits. Also, a few firearms have text saying they are easier to hide- did you intend to have concealing weapons rules or is that just flavor?
**Weapons & Reloading: couldn't find anything on reloading speeds. Can I assume it is the same as in the MSRD?
**Attack Bonus, p80: Some of the numbers on the "Defender is..." table listed with the Miscellaneous Modifiers for the attack roll seem to be backwards (unless the table is intended to list modifiers to AC). By backwards, I mean that the numbers are positive when they should be negative and vice versa.
**Hit Locations: I really like the hit locations, called shots, and injuries rules. However, I won't use the random hit locations as is. As is, an attacker is more likely to randomly hit someone in the throat or head than in the foot, calf, knee, or thigh, since those locations require a d20 roll that probably misses the target. I have to ponder on a house rule that won't add complications.
**Strangulation: on a personal note, strangles cut off blood and knock folks out in about 15 secs (~3 rds). While your rule is way better than the old Con based rule, it might be easier to just have a second grapple check to start the strangle and give the victim 3 rounds to break out or be knocked unconscious. 3 rounds is lots of time for PCs. That just my two cents.
**Appendix 1 vs. my 11th grade Algebra teacher: my old teacher was always telling me to show my work because I would write out the first few steps and then write the answer. Appendix 1 is kind of like that; the first few examples show me step-by-step, but the final example agregates a bunch of steps and I had to trace them carefully to make sure I understood everything that happened.
There were also a few typos, but nothing that prevents the reader from understanding what you are saying. Alas, I don't remember where I spotted them. Sorry.
Please don't take any of my comments the wrong way; this is a great product that I fully intend to inflict upon my players as soon as possible. I only bring these things up as a form of feedback for your consideration.
"**Attack Bonus, p80: Some of the numbers on the "Defender is..." table listed with the Miscellaneous Modifiers for the attack roll seem to be backwards (unless the table is intended to list modifiers to AC). By backwards, I mean that the numbers are positive when they should be negative and vice versa."
I think that table is in the wrong column...those are modifiers to Defense, not an attack roll. Also, the Defense equation should end with "+ Miscellaneous Modifiers".
"As is, an attacker is more likely to randomly hit someone in the throat or head than in the foot, calf, knee, or thigh, since those locations require a d20 roll that probably misses the target. I have to ponder on a house rule that won't add complications."
Here's mine: re-arrange the numbers so that they are evenly distributed among "good" and "bad" Hit Locations, e.g.
1 - Foot
2,11,16,19 - Calf
3 - Knee
4,12,17,20 - Thigh
5 - Groin
6,13,18 - Arm
7,14 - Stomach
8,15 - Chest
9 - Throat
10 - Head.
QED. :)
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback (again)!
I think the best fix on the hit location table would be to have a second roll after a successful attack for the location.
This is actually what the table was designed to do but at the last minute I decided to try and eliminate a roll from combat.
It didn't really occur to me how busted it was, thanks for pointing it out.
**Fireams skill, p36: Is it safe to assume that "Burst Fire" and "Double Tap" refer to the multi-attack rules on pg. 85?
Yes, Double Tap and Burst Fire are a special form of multi-attack that is not dependent on level.
**Feats- Banter, Poise, Smart Defense: are these meant to stack?
Yes they are. It would take a lot of work to really get a big boost out of it.
You'd need to jump into three different classes *and* have decent ability scores in three mental stats.
While you could get a combat benefit (high defense), you'd have to have a low stat somewhere that would hurt you in combat.
Dex and Con are obviously hugely important (especially with Recovery saves and injuries in the mix) and Str is much more important than it is in standard d20M with weapon minimums. Also, if you have a low Str, you might be LESS defensible cause you couldn't wear armor.
That was one of my goals, to drive players insane looking for a dump stats ;)
One last point- Modern20 uses a carrot not stick approach to multi-classing. While you can do it whenever you want, some of the best feats (the ability boost feats) are really only available to folks who spend a long time in one class.
Not coincidentally, these feats also work really well with the Banter, Poise and Smart Defense feats.
**Feats- Pressure Strike, Trick: the text labels them as "(smart)" instad of "Brainiac".
Awesome, thanks for this.
**Attack Bonus, p80: Some of the numbers on the "Defender is..." table listed with the Miscellaneous Modifiers for the attack roll seem to be backwards (unless the table is intended to list modifiers to AC). By backwards, I mean that the numbers are positive when they should be negative and vice versa.
Right, these are Defense bonuses.
The attacker is... table are Attack bonuses.
Rich and Charles, I wanted to give a special thanks to you two for finding so many little errors for me, many of which are going to be fixed in the upcoming version 1.1 on Monday.
If you guys would drop me a line at the address in the suggestion box at the bottom of the page, let me know what PDF you'd like a comp copy of and the account address you'd like it comped to.
Thanks again.
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